The poll:
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/70-americans-trump-actions-tied-ukraine-were-wrong-110154820--abc-news-topstories.html The poll was conducted Saturday & Sunday, November 16-17.
POLL originally appeared on abcnews.go.com
"An overwhelming 70% of Americans think President Donald Trump’s request to a foreign leader to investigate his political rival, which sits at the heart of the House of Representatives' impeachment inquiry, was wrong, a new ABC News/Ipsos poll finds."
The poll found a slim majority of Americans, 51%, believe Trump’s actions were both wrong and he should be impeached and removed from office.
Other poll findings: "In addition to the 51%, "another 19% think that Trump's actions were wrong, but that he should either be impeached by the House but not removed from office or be neither impeached by the House nor convicted by the Senate." The survey also finds that 1 in 4 Americans, 25%, still think that Trump did nothing wrong.
"Still, nearly 1 in 3, 32%, say they made up their minds about impeaching the president before the news broke about Trump’s July phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, in which Trump urged his Ukrainian counterpart to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son, Hunter."
_______________________________________________________________________
What this poll shows is that Democrats have already won the argument that Trump did do what they say he did and what he did was wrong. 25% still think he did nothing wrong . What Democrats have failed to do so far is to convince more that it was wrong enough to warrant impeaching and removal. That opinion is nearly evenly split with 51% in favor.
What this poll shows is that Democrats have already won the argument that Trump did do what they say he did and what he did was wrong. 25% still think he did nothing wrong . What Democrats have failed to do so far is to convince more that it was wrong enough to warrant impeaching and removal. That opinion is nearly evenly split with 51% in favor.
What Democrats must do is to make a stronger case to voters that what Trump did was wrong enough to deserve impeachment and removal. The potential is good since there is still a body that could be convinced. Any poll that shows 60% or more agreeing on something is as good as you can usually get on any issue. There will always be about a third who says "no" to any issue. Democrats need is to change half of the minds who are thinking Trump did wrong, just not wrong enough.
The arguments Democrats can make involve the threat to national security and democracy of Trump's continued presidency. The case is not easy to make, but it is something that matters. The problem is that usually foreign affairs never rise to the top of the voter concern list unless the US is attacked, we get in a hot shooting war early in the event, body bags are sent back to the US to grieving friends and relatives, or the draft is enacted. Trump's kissing up to Putin or abandoning our allies or withdrawing to let Russia take over positions we once held have not grabbed the imagination of many voters. Threats in a distant future to national security which involve some obscure country are not frightening enough to alarm voters, either. The case is to be made is if the US does not commit strongly to Ukraine's independence from Russia, the signal sent to Russia is that they can expect little resistance if they take over all of the former Soviet satellites that now lean westward or are a part of NATO. This could trigger a hot war and US participation in it. The possibility seems remote, but it will be less remote if we do nothing now. It is a stitch in time before the hem unravels. It is in that context the case must be made. Ukraine as a country has been a constant issue in foreign policy since the 2016 campaign. Trump's campaign chair in spring and summer of 2016, Paul Manafort, was a former advisor to a deposed pro-Russian Ukraine president. Russia taking over Crimea in 2014 and invading Ukraine's eastern province and interfering in the 2016 US elections did result in sanctions and some military aid to the pro-west government. Congress appropriated lethal weapons when Trump became president, but Trump used that aid as his hammer to get Ukraine to help him with his re-election. Even then, as one following my blog postings on facebook asked: what does this have to do with me and my life. To say that Ukraine was the first line of defense against some hot war with Russia on the European continent or Trump's foreign policy of turning the world we used to control ...Syria to eastern Europe ..over to Russa, is hard to imagine. It is in that context the case must be made. The symbol of what is in the store could be the picture of Russia occupying a former US base in northern Syria. We left the battlefield to Russian influence in the middle east they had been seeking, bolstering their allies there, including Iran. Russia means us no good and weakening the US resolve to resist them is an enabling feather in their power-seeking cap. For those who think isolation is the answer to America's peace and prosperity, ask themselves: How did that work out in the 1930s?
While foreign crises can happen quickly, the other argument for impeachment is "precedent" in a civics or political science context. Civics is boring until the time democracy is lost and usually this is a slowly creeping cancer that the victims only realize it infects them when it is too late to reverse it. Peace and prosperity eventually follow that decline in democratic governance. What if Trump gets away with giving the rule of law his finger, or defying Congressional appropriations, or shows tendencies and strategies used by autocrats and dictators to control citizens' minds, hearts, and actions? Does it mean some future wannabe dictator in America could get away with it, too? It could if enough voters do not care or do not try to nip this one in the bud. Our democracy is fragile and only survives if most of us are willing to protect it and it exists only with the consent of the governed. Those who are advocating civil war if their dear leader is held to account are the most dangerous threat to democracy that exists. Democracy provides a peaceful way for regime change and it requires respect from even those who are a minority who lose in the ballot box or in the polls of public opinion. Fomenting violent revolution by even using such threatening words is a sign we should take as evidence that there is a slowly creeping demise of democracy underway. That is the same pattern we saw in the rise of fascists in the 1930s and Erdogan in Turkey..All rose by manipulating step by step the tools of democracy and their country's laws. to grab power with the consent of a critical mass of their own people. When democracy, freedom of speech, press, and other rights protected in our constitution are destroyed, what is left is indeed for the oppressed and muzzled to take to the streets in a futile effort in the face of the overwhelming power of the dictator. That is what happens when democracy dies.
_________________________________________________________________________
This segment has been moved to its own posting: Why impeachment if the senate does not convict. 11/19/19
Impeachment alone will leave Trump with an official black eye in history. Even an impeachment vote without a conviction by the Senate is a degree of punishment. That asterisk by his name in the history books has meaning, particularly for one who has such a high opinion of himself. and carse history shares that high opinion. Whether this impeachment is because of partisanship and not because of facts and substance will only be a footnote in history books. Of course, partisan politics were at play. The facts and substance will still get top billing. Whether it is enough to deter future similar bad actors is yet to be seen. However, it may have meaning in the next election, too. For that reason, even if the chances of a Senate conviction are remote, impeachment in the House is worth it, setting the precedent that those behave as Trump has done will be called out and exposed to voters.
A step three-question though is convincing voters is that we should not wait for the next election to remove him and that Trump is such a threat to national security and is trampling democracy, we cannot wait another year to get him out of the oval office before the next election. Democrats are making the case that we cannot wait to oust Trump until the 2020 elections because he is using his office for seeking and employing foreign interference to help him with the 2020 elections at the expense of our national security., our national interests. , Has seriously damaged the ability of those in both the intelligence, diplomatic corps to protect our security. and independence as a nation and sent messages to the rest of the world not to trust our past pledges of commitment to their peace, prosperity, and independence, either.
What puzzles me are those who do still support Trump and oppose impeachment and/or removal. I hope I am wrong, but I theorize that they are banking on is that what Trump is doing has no impact on their lives and even if Trump is abusing power and using corrupt methods for his own political purposes is fine with them because it serves their purposes, too. What Trump represents and his methods of spreading fear by tweet even if he lies and his transactional modus without concern for ethics, values, and morality can be overlooked because it suits their own beliefs. He has convinced them he cares about their self-interests and he keeps both of them in the national driver seat. The end justifies the means. The impact on the future of democracy is not of their concern. It is some theory, with little impact in their lifetime. This is the values and cultural challenge that those who think otherwise cannot overcome. The best Democrats can do is to make their case to the other 60% of the nation.
_________________________________________________________________________
This segment has been moved to its own posting: Why impeachment if the senate does not convict. 11/19/19
Impeachment alone will leave Trump with an official black eye in history. Even an impeachment vote without a conviction by the Senate is a degree of punishment. That asterisk by his name in the history books has meaning, particularly for one who has such a high opinion of himself. and carse history shares that high opinion. Whether this impeachment is because of partisanship and not because of facts and substance will only be a footnote in history books. Of course, partisan politics were at play. The facts and substance will still get top billing. Whether it is enough to deter future similar bad actors is yet to be seen. However, it may have meaning in the next election, too. For that reason, even if the chances of a Senate conviction are remote, impeachment in the House is worth it, setting the precedent that those behave as Trump has done will be called out and exposed to voters.
A step three-question though is convincing voters is that we should not wait for the next election to remove him and that Trump is such a threat to national security and is trampling democracy, we cannot wait another year to get him out of the oval office before the next election. Democrats are making the case that we cannot wait to oust Trump until the 2020 elections because he is using his office for seeking and employing foreign interference to help him with the 2020 elections at the expense of our national security., our national interests. , Has seriously damaged the ability of those in both the intelligence, diplomatic corps to protect our security. and independence as a nation and sent messages to the rest of the world not to trust our past pledges of commitment to their peace, prosperity, and independence, either.
What puzzles me are those who do still support Trump and oppose impeachment and/or removal. I hope I am wrong, but I theorize that they are banking on is that what Trump is doing has no impact on their lives and even if Trump is abusing power and using corrupt methods for his own political purposes is fine with them because it serves their purposes, too. What Trump represents and his methods of spreading fear by tweet even if he lies and his transactional modus without concern for ethics, values, and morality can be overlooked because it suits their own beliefs. He has convinced them he cares about their self-interests and he keeps both of them in the national driver seat. The end justifies the means. The impact on the future of democracy is not of their concern. It is some theory, with little impact in their lifetime. This is the values and cultural challenge that those who think otherwise cannot overcome. The best Democrats can do is to make their case to the other 60% of the nation.
No comments:
Post a Comment